Queerology's Matthias Roberts on his new book: Beyond Shame
In episode 17, Danielle and Maggie chat with Matthias Roberts, the author of Beyond Shame and the host of the Queerology: A Podcast about Belief and Being. He holds a M.A. in Theology and Culture and a M.A. in Counseling Psychology, both from the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology where he is also an associate instructor. He is Licensed Mental Health Counselor Associate (LMHCA) in the state of Washington and specializes in LBGTQ+ trauma and faith.
His new book, Beyond Shame, is written for anyone who grew up in under the purity movement—rigid rules about sexuality. US was founded on Puritanical ideals and we’re just now beginning to see how harmful in the ways we’ve been policing bodies. How do we work with that our sexual shame and move beyond shame towards confident flouring lives and sexuality?
Matthias says we first need to recognize what you’re working with: acknowledge that the shame you feel. See the ways we are trying to cope with our shame.
Three coping mechanisms that we use to deal/avoid with shame:
Shame Full-ness: We let shame rule our lives and sexuality. We push it down and hide it, do not express it.
Shame less-ness: Let our “freedom” rule over our shame, we do whatever we want. We’re running away from shame, instead of dealing with it.
Auto-pilot: Either we’ve done our shame work, or do not have as much sexual shame (grown up in sex positive environment), but when sexuality pops up we feel shame and because it’s not pervasive enough we don’t engage it.
Once we know what coping mechanisms are at play we can ask ourselves, “If this is the shape of my shame, what can I then do to start working with it in a honest way.
“Good intentions” can not be an escape from working with your shame. We can acknowledge good intentions, like when mom says “don’t look” when a woman is on the tv screen. We don’t want to over sexualize our kids, so there is goodness in that. But when you’re body starts to have biological responses and you really want to look at this, cognitive dissonance happens. When the only messages that you've been told is “You are dirty, you are bad. God will hate you if you enjoy looking…” Thats where shame gets mixed in.
There’s a both and. You can say that “my parents really were doing the best that they could” and “I’m still left with debilitating shame.” Honesty is that both of these are true. “We can be messed up with good intentions."
Matthias hopes that people will find themselves among the chapters. Coping mechanisms have helped us get through life. “When someone puts language to what you know to be very true in your body… it can be really uncomfortable but also feel really freeing." There’s a different way to live! We no longer have to live out of our coping mechanisms, we can live out of groundedness and what our actual values are, which is much more satisfying.
We need a faith that can move in these space (in our sexuality and our shame). We shouldn’t have to reject our faith in order to navigate honestly.
His book arose out of a personal question—he found the things he had been taught about sex and sexuality didn’t seem to be working. For example, sex outside of marriage. He kept seeing people of deep faith operating in different ways. Personal longing: what are these other pope seeing that I don't and how do I apply that to what I have been taught. Who do I believe God is? Is God a God of freedom? A god who invites us to flouring within our relationships, bodies and sexuality? Is it this rigid one-size fits all model or is there space for people to have different values about their bodies and sexuality?
“God is so much bigger than what I was taught. God is not in the business of making moralistic black and white rules…. I don’t think that’s who God is.” God is complex and so are we!
Sexuality is a hot button for people. Race too. It’s a topic that’s been glossed over. The complexity has not been address in either.
We as a culture have an issue with embodiment. When we gloss over the complexities, it says a lot about who we are as particular bodies, particular people who live in particular environments. One size fits all is literally impossible, it does not work.
There needs to be a curiosity about why we are so disembodied. How can we engage our faith and sexuality by bringing the fullness of our humanity.
Are we fearfully and wonderfully made or are we not?
Do I believe that about me and do I believe that about you?
Matthias started his podcast Queerology three years ago with a desire to engage the intersection of being LBGTQ and a person of faith. He wanted to address the question: What does it mean to live faithfully, to live well, as LBGTQ people of faith? It was a movement beyond the question can I be gay and be a person of faith. It’s conversations around queerness and “what we believe and what we’re doing in the world.” He talks about how faith informs work as a queer person.
March 24th launches season 4!
Matthias describes what it means to be Queer: it uses “queer” to be an umbrella term. Anyone who falls outside of a hetero-world (one man one women), who identifies as “different” but doesn’t want a strict label. “I sit in a space of difference” which allows everyone their own particular story.
To support Matthias work and Queerology you can go to paetron.com/matthiasroberts
Within the state of Washington you can reach out to him for therapy work. He offers intensive weekends also. He has resources as well for being queer and a person of faith.
Matthias is reading: 9 Perfect Strangers by Liane Moriarty
Matthias is listening to:
Matthias is inspired by the Story Grid by Shawn Coyne
You can connect with Matthias at www.matthiasroberts.com
Tune in to his podcast Queerology: On Belief and Being wherever you get your podcasts.